The world is and will remain difficult and India needs strong leadership that can make the right decisions and carry out systemic changes to cope with emerging challenges and a fraying global order, external affairs minister S Jaishankar said on Saturday.

International relations is a “fundamentally competitive exercise”, Jaishankar said in the context of the contest between India and China for regional influence and New Delhi had allocated billions of dollars for connectivity and infrastructure projects with neighbours such as Bangladesh, Bhutan and Nepal.

During a wide-ranging conversation with HT editor-in-chief R Sukumar at the Hindustan Times Leadership Summit, Jaishankar also highlighted factors driving the burgeoning India-US relationship, including cooperation in defence and critical technologies and Washington’s need for new partners to overcome diverse challenges.

Noting that the world is suboptimal and India’s vision is to win, Jaishankar said: “We in India need to be realistic. The world is difficult, the world will be difficult. That is why today we need strong leadership, decisions, the preparations, the systemic changes and all of this. I would say we are in a storm and there’s no guarantee the storm is going to get any better.”

He added, “So we’re going to sail through that storm. I think this country needs to think what is the hand it needs on the tiller if you’re going to sail through that storm and what is the vision of the captain as you’re going to sail through the storm.”

Responding to a question on the current state of India-China relations, including the military standoff on the border and the jockeying for influence in the region, Jaishankar said international relations is a “fundamentally competitive exercise”, and New Delhi shouldn’t shrink from accepting this is the fundamental basis of diplomacy.

Resources for competition will grow hand in hand with the growth of national economy, though India has already committed billions of dollars for development and connectivity projects in Bangladesh, Bhutan and Nepal. “In every one of these countries, you can see connectivity to India, the impact of the Indian economy on the economy of our neighbours,” he said.

Countries in the neighbourhood will “naturally try to extract the best” from India and China, and New Delhi can edge ahead only by doing things on the ground and delivering on projects. India is implementing almost 600 development projects in 78 countries and the most visible are in the neighbourhood. “Foreign policy is not just nice words and joint statements. It is actually grunt work, it is about putting money, executing stuff and it’s only when we do this, I would say that is a requirement if you have to compete with a nation like China,” he said.

At the same time, the US and the global order is also grappling with the rise of China. The Chinese polity and mindset are very different, making it “a very different kind of power”, and countries are coming together to figure out regional solutions that do not involve either China or the US, he indicated.

Turning to the rapidly growing relationship with the US, Jaishankar said the ties had been driven by a combination of factors, some dating back to 2000, such as the H-1B visas that brought India into a “zone of awareness and understanding”. The US was then in a stronger position geopolitically but it saw the merit in engaging India. This was followed by the civil nuclear deal and thereafter, the US has been looking for new long-term partners for its efforts to reshape the world.

Till about a decade ago, India and the US were clearing obstacles for working together, and in the current phase, the relationship is more forward leaning and ambitious. “There are things that we can do together and part of it is also India’s capabilities have grown. We are today a partner of greater substance. From an American perspective, our weight and our value as a partner has grown,” Jaishankar said.

Over the past four years, important factors such as the digital domain, artificial intelligence, semiconductors and critical and emerging technologies have come into play. “The stronger India is as a technology hub, if it can get into smart manufacturing, I think we have much more to offer to the world, not just to the US,” he said.

During Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to the US in June, three agreements were signed for cooperation in semiconductors, and there have also been breakthroughs in electronics, hardware manufacturing and defence collaboration. The government has also created a template that makes India a more credible player in critical and emerging technologies and this too is powering the India-US relationship, he added.

Asked about India’s decision to abstain during a UN General Assembly vote on a resolution for a humanitarian pause in the Israel-Hamas conflict and whether the current tensions could impact the India-Middle East-Europe-Economic Corridor (IMEC), Jaishankar said it was too early to draw even a semi-definitive conclusion.

Jaishankar said he had spoken to his Israeli counterpart Eli Cohen, who provided Israel’s expectation and analysis of the existing challenges. “I can clearly conclude that this is a very complex situation with a lot of possibilities which are not fully apparent. Possibility not in a good way,” he said.

There is enormous interest in Europe and West Asia in the IMEC to ensure a more efficient and seamless trade with India, though “unanticipated problems of a serious nature can happen”, he said. “I don’t think because something has happened that, if you have a larger goal and a larger plan, that you immediately start rethinking and revising that. I think you keep your master plan,” he said.

Jaishankar also reiterated India’s stance of opposing all forms of terrorism, including the Hamas attacks of October 7, but pointed out that India also recognises that international humanitarian law must be observed in the context of any action being taken by Israel in the Gaza Strip. India also continues to back a two-state solution, whereby an independent, viable Palestinian state is arrived at through direct dialogue between the Palestinians and Israelis, he said.

These three issues must be appropriately balanced out, he said, adding that the challenge of policy-making is harmonising principles and finding the right balance.